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Hi, my name is Paul, here's a little story you might find amusing from my school days at Kenmure Intermediate School in Dunedin in '77 when I was I thought 'no problem' - and was asked in turn to read my paper to the class. After mentioning cannibalism and utu revenge I was told to shut-up, and dragged before the headmaster who informed me I was a quote 'filthy pommie bastard' and got six hits of the strap on the palm of my hand for 'spreading my racist lies' and trying to upset other members of the class.

The teacher in question spent the next 18 months in verbal abuse to me, and encouragement of class mates to 'set right' bully the 'filthy pommie bastard' in question. I remember feeling quite confused. He informed me that in the 'vaults' were many items of Moriori artifacts, as well as unknown origin metal items he mentioned brass and bronze that they 'by law' were not allowed to exhibit.

He didn't know why or by who this was done. I have asked and wrote to the museum about these objects, but have never received a reply. I myself remember viewing Moriori objects there from '74 onwards but these were removed in the late '80s. I guess history is not at all what I thought it was meant to be, but then again what's the opinion of a pommie bastard anyway???

But well done to bring out the discussion on the truth anyway. I'm very sorry to hear about your unfortunate run-in with the New Zealand education system, who labeled you as an "illegitimate Prisoner of Mother England" Unfortunately, we're burdened with droves of these present-day idiots who dominate the educational scenery and modify true, raw history into socially engineered, "touchy- feely", sanitised versions.

The Maori warriors overwhelmed the earlier people, annihilated or absorbed them, then took over everything the earlier group had I would dearly love it if your friend would provide me with an affidavit concerning Otago Museum's official policy against displaying the more ancient artefacts. I've heard this before in relation to the Otago Museum and have written about it in my book.

Several people have complained about this suppression of artefacts A few years ago my colleague, Gary Cook, was in contact with a representative of the Tainui people, who had the assignment of going to the museum and identifying artefacts found within the traditional region of her Iwi.

The Tainui representative said that she was shown large drawers full of objects in the basement and commented to Gary that most of what she saw was not of Maori origin. Is your friend still the Curator or has he moved on to less "clandestine" enterprises? You could really help us here in New Zealand if you could set up a link between your friend and I.

You would also have the last laugh and be vindicated for the treatment you got from the imbecile teacher, who verbally abused you over a period of months or for the "six of the best" you unfairly received.

I'd encourage you to look at the mathematics of my book again, or go directly to my website at www. Look also at the article on The Crosshouse of Miringa te Kakara. I can't fake the mathematical occurrences absolutely in evidence within these sites, especially where they relate to PHI or strong lunar and navigational codes.

This is not a hypothesis or a theory Hope you can put me in contact with your friend Gene Matlock Tuesday, September 18, Subject: I was reading what Mark Newbrook said about me.

I tried vainly to tell him that I don't exactly use linguistics per se. Although I often veer from the "straight and narrow," I tend to boil down all the "linguistics" I use to spiritual, caste, and place names. Those words are as hard to change as the Rock of Gibraltar. He has also accused me of using 18th century ideas about linguistics. And what's wrong with that? Waddell, Godfrey Higgins and others for as long as the world stands. The 17th century orientalist and linguist, Edward Pococke, has well earned for himself a permanent place in history.

Instead of trying to act like Inspector Jaubert of Les Miserables, tracking down "linguistic criminals," or as a Jehovah's Witness wanting to put us "linguistic sinners" on the "straight and narrow road to salvation, Mark Newbrook should contribute some of the originality he claims to have. At least the Hindus and several of our largest Amerindian tribes are taking what I have to say seriously.

This last May, I was instrumental in setting up a meeting between some Hindu Sanskrit scholars and the Caddo Indian tribe. They are going to start meeting regularly. Several other Amerindian tribes are also contacting me about these matters. Mark had better get busy and save "their poor lost souls" before any more find out about their Hindu origins. Hi Gene, nice to hear from you and to get some insights into the way you approach your research.

I've tried to tell Mark pretty much the same thing about my association with "linguistics". I don't claim to have any expertise in deciphering scripts or recognising distinct, borrowed words within the Malayo-Polynesian language families or in any ancient languages further afield.

I've referred Mark to others who claimed some expertise in this area but have not advanced any opinions based on personal research, as it's not an area I dabble with. Despite this, Mark has a tendency to assign me to a pigeonhole and belief system with regards to linguistics, then proceeds to demolish it.

The science of Historical Linguistics appears to be a particularly clinical branch of science that I doubt I could get very passionate about personally. It looks to me a lot like a game of dominoes, where the pattern builds and moves erratically across the table world in stepping stone fashion and can branch out in any direction at any given time.

Although Mark would severely scald me for saying so, perhaps the science, as it matured, was structured at a time when there was entrenched belief in isolationism and those tracking the movement of language on continents separated by vast oceans might have relied too heavily on this presumption.

The factor that there is now emerging evidence of advanced shipwright and navigation skills since very remote epochs seems to be absent from the traditional "Historical Linguistics" equation, especially relating to isolated regions like the Pacific. Some inflexible traditionalists might, as a consequence, feel threatened by dynamic new perspectives that have the potential to introduce unplanned for and "back to the drawing board" oversights. If there was reasonably consistent ancient shipping and trade throughout vast regions like the Pacific, then some borrowed language influences should have been injected into regional usage.

Shipwrecks and the stranding of foreign nationals would have had the potential of causing a large language effect within a region, generating a pidgin form of communication that was finally absorbed into the intonation of the indigeneous population and rendered unrecognisable. We have words in Maori like the surname Paneora, which some Maori people have told me is derived from "Hispaneola" These seamen, far from home, were later absorbed into the Maori tribes and had offspring.

Maori genealogies include such individuals in the family tree. Traders would most certainly have exerted a major language influence and a merchant pidgin would have developed from that interaction. The comparison in religious belief systems between Maori and ancient India have also been a point of major local discussion, especially in the 's. I look at a vast range of evidence in diverse categories, which point convincingly to a general overall conclusion of who was here in ancient New Zealand and from whence the local influences came.

My research, like yours, is in a constant state of change and the best I can do for Mark is tell him what the present indicators are in my view. He appears to want "closure" and "absolution" and an admission that there is no convincing or definitive evidence to support any aspect of our heresy against the conclusions of the mainstream academic community. Even significant scholars within that community can be relegated by Mark to the "fringe", if they dare to postulate possibilities outside an acceptable consensus view or stray too far from the central fold.

I wish you well in your search and hope you achieve significant breakthroughs in the finding and decipherment of incised scripts.

If, in the course of our expeditions we come across pictographs or potential script, we'll send photos for comparative analysis and addition to your dossier. To see a sample of Gene Matlock's work go to: Martin what is your whakapapa, who is your grandparents, great-grandparents, great-great-grandparents etc what villages did they come from. Alot of your racism is subconsious, picked up from living in this country through the collective subconsious of media, school etct oh please do not give back "some of my best friends are maori Dear Emily, my only obsession is in gaining access to "warts and all" truth and not the "much sanitised" pseudo history that we are being force fed by the nouveau breed of historians.

I resent the hijacking of history by politically correct "social workers", many of whom display all of the attributes of appeasing "Uncle Toms" I likewise resent those factions within Maoridom who attempt to disallow any history that does not promote solely them, in accordance with their highly modified, sanitised and often "greed driven" point of view.

I resent the instances of "blackmail" If politically motivated factions wish to use history as a weapon or for leverage, then let's find out what the true history actually is As to my whakapapa My family once commissioned me to try to "bridge the gap" between French Canada and France.

I was attempting to link over branches of the French Canadian family tree Some of my bloodlines are Iroquois Indian. I also did genealogical research in England and Germany. Many of my ancestors had to flee to French Canada to escape the carnage and religious persecution of Europe. While you're issuing challenges for me, how about me raising one for you?

As a bystander I found the ebb and flow of this debate refreshing, unusual and fascinating. I was particularly interested in the mention of whare waananga as well as the recant of information in relation to the god Mana and the notion of mana definitive authority. To quote the relevant passage: In the Indian Midewiwin initiation rituals, a young brave would swallow a white shell called "Manna.

Tribal elders said Mahia the Hebrew form of Mana is Emmanuel. Emmanuel is also Tama-nui-te-ra I who is also Rangi-nui ancient lord of heavens. Haepurua is male child number four out of Rangi-nui Mao. Gaius and Papa-tuanuku Gk. I was conditioned to the androdyn tradition of whare waananga, which presents Rangi and Papa as a co-existential pair. The ancestral god Tane-nui-a-rangi is the son of Rangi-nui and Papa-tuanuku.

He founded whare waananga and all Tangata Maori have genealogy to prove their rights his descendants. Tane-nui-a-rangi also took the name Tama-nui-te-ra II.

A comparative analysis of spoken Greek and Maori three weeks using an informant revealed there were about words with the same pronunciation and meaning in either language. Edward Tregear Aryan Maori says "that his language" te reo maori "has preserved, in an almost inconceivable purity the speech of his Aryan forefathers, and compared with which the Greek and Latin tongues are mere corruptions. I have had two different forms of training a: According to Hine Waitere-Ang "disciplines privilege their own validating mechanisms" and I guess that is another way of saying conditioned mind-space, institutionalised training and research prerogative sometimes operate in ways which focus but pre-empt a wider debate of views and positions.

Whare waananga students are required to earn the right to claim and use their words and as part of that process they might conclude all words of the reo come from the pre-existential creator IO-matua. They may go further and arrive at the understanding each word of the reo is a god, a binary sequence, a history and a science.

For instance the name Mannanan is actually in the third person.

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Maths may get dumped soon after because no one seems to want to run around measuring illusion. The stones are part of the riddle as well. I hope I have taken the scalpel to a few local cobwebs and re-spliced some Celtic braid. It is good to see academic courage has many and several refreshing places. Having a foot in each of two camps, 'a: You are privy to very old and specialised information, oral traditions and insights reserved only for those who undergo the profound whare waananga training.

When I speak of "Celts", that should be interpreted as the "forebears to the Celts" Many remnant structures in New Zealand display attributes consistent with how these ancient groups lived, built domestic dwellings and defensive areas or raised astronomical sites in the Northern Hemisphere.

These ancient groups later amalgamated to become the Celts by about BC. It's refreshing to read your acknowledgement of the wider range of groups who were in New Zealand during ancient times, some or many of whom became ancestors to Maori at a late era.

Your reference to, 'Maui had an elongated head and six fingers from a Pharaoh who had done much muddling - everywhere in the Mediterranean region or so it seems', describes in part a local "throwback" trait. There are also cave drawings in New Zealand depicting "six fingered hands".

This was a common trait amongst the large stature Nephilim people of the Middle East, who also had "double rows of teeth" hyperdontia. Two such skulls are reported by an "old-timer" I interviewed to have been found in the north of New Zealand around the beginning of the 20th century. The gentleman simply came out with the information without any prompting from me. What he was describing was relatives of the group who built the early mounds of North America From my own European perspective, I want to know about and pay homage to my distant, world travelling relatives whose ancient remains, along with those of many other groups, lie in the burial caves or are interred in a trussed or sitting position within the sand dunes of this country.

It's profoundly important to me and my European people to rekindle links with our long lost, migrating cousins who wandered so far from the mother countries. We want to get to know something of them and how they fared for many generations far from our traditional homelands in the Northern Hemisphere.

To our great chagrin, however, we are denied access to our people and when their remains are discovered they are, all too often, gathered up by regional iwi and hidden away forever. Many tens of thousands of these skeletal remains have been unceremoniously destroyed since the 's. We want to have unobstructed, scientific access to those remains that display recognisable physical attributes consistent with unique aspects of our European physiology and ethnicity.

We want to subject their red, blond or brown hair and other parts of the remains to DNA analysis to find out what particular branches of the family tree these people represent. We wish to know the migration route that they took, potentially through many generations and several countries, to get to ancient New Zealand and clues within their physiology can tell us that. It is easy to detect their remnant influences in the ruined structures scattered across our landscape or in the mathematical knowledge that remained till a late era and was encrypted into such whare waananga structures as the Crosshouse of Miringa Te Kakara.

Maori are in a position to gift this knowledge back and aid us in fully demystifying frustrating lingering anomalies in our oftimes confused interpretation of long-term regional history.

The biotechnology language is called tukara-aho Other forms and styles of Moko remain a mystery beyond my ability to interpret and perhaps contain no astronomical information, but relate instead to such things as warrior prowess. The "string knot" language is reminiscent of a communication or record-keeping method utilised in other countries, including South America.

I know that Sanskrit text has been located in Eastern Polynesia, as well as Lapita pottery a pictograph form recently found in Tonga. It is reported that pottery fragments were found in the caves of Port Waikato and ended up in a private collection somewhere in that area.

I have also seen pictograph rocks in reasonable numbers throughout New Zealand Barry Fell found an ancient form of written script in Taranaki and gave an interpretation of its meaning. I realise that the knowledge of the whare waananga is very profound, with aspects that are considered sacred or even secret. I know also that Maori have attempted in times past to enlighten historians about what has occurred regionally, only to have carefully preserved oral traditions treated as unreliable or outright mythological.

The elders have since reverted to holding significant information to themselves, rather than "cast their pearl before swine". In the light of new archaeological discoveries and enhanced ability to assess and interpret information through scientific advances, perhaps it's time for Maori to proffer their significant knowledge anew to the open, honest and truth-seeking masses.

Martin - I would not want to make a comment about which language is closer, Minoan matrilineal or Greek patrilineal. I come from a matrilineal tribe and there may be a bias.

On this plane I think it is necessary to establish matching between language, custom and culture, e. One is Hine Rea.

Papa is also the male name for the female earth. Myths are used to navigate dangerous waters. If an ancestor died at a certain point in training one knows there is danger at that point and can lock into another ancestor who managed to get past the section. I think it is also necessary to establish whakapapa or genetic connection. I thought Victoria and Massey completed their combined study alcoholism amongst Tangata Maori of genetic material.

So far they seem to have traced Tangata Maori back to the hill people of Taiwan. I think it is a question of time before that work is completed and a worldwide picture will emerge. This genome project is not new. The computer reflects the biology which produced it, which its principles of logic enshrine. I wonder who is watching whom. Some whare waananga students were regarded as biological robots. The name for that is mareikura f and whatukura m.

Each time I returned home from university, elders would sit for nights and days. During these sessions they adjusted, matched, added to and corrected the western knowledge.

Whare waananga is another gear on top of that. If a person has a genetic or historical connection then it is possible to re-fruit that knowledge onto this plane.

Elders may not answer a question directly because they had a view telling is not the same as knowing. They provide the training process and that re-generates the relevant experience, which they then deny or confirm. The said, 'na te aha matou i tapaingia taua ingoa i runga i a koe - why do you think we put that name on you? There were four European men onward who were accorded the rank of fighting chief in my tribe. Two received facial and thigh moko and two received whole bodymoko called whakairo.

The prophecies of Nostradamus were tattooed on the body of one and a watermark moko like a jig-saw was put on the other. Whare waananga tattooists have an experience in which they see the moko before the person arrives. Your view there is a connection between moko and the universe is correct. For the sake of biological maths - I will give you one whare waananga insight. Start with the carvings. Mark out all the centres of every spiral extrinsic and intrinsic e.

There will be some straight lines and some parabolic shapes. Then turn around and consult your star charts. The human being duplicates reality and the universe. You might be able to tell the Chinese how acupuncture works and you will end up back at Stonehenge. Someday perhaps there will be a centre of Celtic excellence in this country.

I think it is as much a wish as a dream reality. Have no problem with that. The ancestor Te Whatui-apiti years ago had red hair and some of his descendants at Te Hauke have the same coppery hair.

At birth mine until age nine was yellow not blond. Elders said the crazy hair came from Rehua. In the pre-earth tradition the wives of Rehua are Ruhia-i-te-rangi Lucia fair of heavens and Peka-hawani Rebecca. Anyone who has met the ancestress Rongomaiwahine during the last knows she has emerald eyes. Other women wore 'manu korihi te ata' or komako early morning bird moko. Some of our women wore variations of the tamaiwaho opposed dog moko and some wore variations of the puriri phoenix butterfly or moko based on other butterflies.

There was a tradition for the teachers Rehua and Ruatau. Instead of dying they would take their leave - walk away from the people and explode: That is an ancestral dual essence a tauira or exemplary demi-god. It also means the two exemplaries were present Rehua and Ruatau. The Moki fish travels in pairs around the rocks. Stand still turn around and you will see the other one. That student withdrew from the world and went walk about wanderer on the land.

Provided people could locate him they might ask it to make a wish for them and in a very short time they would receive that gift thing or knowledge. That word tau-kata means he was a jovial Buddha always laughing and smiling.

Einstein speculated there was a narrow void shift where space interacts with matter and that is correct. Those who built the pyramids translated that knowledge to the slope. All kinds of strange things can happen in that narrow gap rather like sneaking under the wire fence at a prison. We are okay here because there are many hills with the correct angle. Of course those hills have to be in the right place on the three earth grids.

All whare waananga conform to those grids and we have our ways of finding where they are and how to fix them if they have been damaged.

I often travel across country in the dark to be at these places in the absence of people. Bill Maloney Clive H. B had an old map of India. The names of many of the old ocean voyage canoes were listed on it as villages. Bill was an expert in the pa of Heretaunga because elders Tu-ranga Karauria and others took him under their wing. He had the best collection of old books and material I have seen and he knew what was on each page.

He used to own a bookshop. I think it was in Wairoa. He said it went broke because he couldn't part with his books. The tai-maru Tai-chi of this is in the kowhaiwhai pattern on the tahuhu ridgepole of the house. That is why some sections of the genealogy repeat at about generations. We used to hang our shields along the outside of our houses and the lone koruru shield is still there to remind us. I have no problem with round houses.

We measure time by the number of kotuku white heron cloaks. Then we have a hakari a gathering across tribal boundaries. Elders say five cloaks were completed.

I think it is inevitable archaeologists will need to look beneath the layers of Taupo ash. The story of those eruptions is preserved and held by the Tuwharetoa tribe. I am fortunate in having a background in whare waananga as well as an ability to tred water in this modern world. Thus twin peaks became twin rivers, two legs, one road to follow and two mouths to feed - one with food and one with wisdom.

In consideration of the many stacked stone structures, walls, etc. If each completed cloak represents years and the 6th cloak is in the making, then we can assume some continuous local ancestral lines of almost years duration. The purpose built structures found in New Zealand look very "Megalithic Age" and it would seem that the old mode of living didn't change radically right up until recent centuries.

This tried and true way of life was regulated by astronomy and close observation of the cycles. It was reasonably simple but by no means primitive, as the mathematical knowledge required to calculate and stay abreast of certain cycles was astounding in its sophistication. I would like to see an expanded scientific programme of genetic tracing occur that was aggreeable to all parties and participants, so that the greater worldwide spread of ancestral lines for Maori can be positively identified.

Such a programme would certainly fast track our knowledge of what occurred locally. The line to the hill people of Taiwan might be predominant and prove to be the most important, but there are altogether too many other worldwide influences in Maori culture to stop there. A gene found amongst the Tongan people shows a link to the Basque region of Northern Spain. Some 20, American Indians have the rare Haplogroup X gene, which links them to Europe and much of the evidence on the New Zealand landscape would suggest that similar ancestral lines will show up strongly amongst pre-colonial Maori.

A scientific incentive to do worldwide genetic fingerprinting was undertaken a few years ago and was generally entered into with enthusiasm by indigenous groups everywhere. Aroha Mead campaigned to have the programme stopped by an appeal to the United Nations and, as far as I know, was successful in curtailing any general blood sampling of Maori within that programme.

Since that time there has been some limited analysis done under very controlled circumstances and only approved aspects of the overall result appear to have been released. While I can agree with many of her views about curtailing "idiot fringe" or exploitative, big business interests in the growing "genetic" industry, it seems a pity to not use legitimate areas of the science to trace the movement and merging of ancestral peoples.

For those of us passionate about "who went where and did what" in history, such tools are invaluable. Again, many thanks for insights into the workings of the Whare Waananga. I hope that the onslaught of the computer age, with its many mind-dumbing distractions, has not depleted the supply of initiates.

Certain things must not be lost and hopefully the "brightest and most adept" of the iwi children are still availing themselves to learn the "old knowledge", so that it can be passed on intact to yet another generation. Dia duit a Martin, Connas ta tu? Must say a very interesting site! I can't say that I totally agree about the Celts being here at any stage, but I do agree that open debate is a good thing.

Funny how people get on their high horse and say that a people weren't here before the Maori, but they said that about land dinosaurs and correct me if I'm wrong, but there were land dinosaurs here in little old NZ! Just after the turn of last the last century, about if I remember rightly an Englishman discovered some naturally preserved human bodies in the desert area of Urumchi, North West China.

He made the mistake of dating them to about the 1st century BC by the Chinese ruins in the area, They turn out to be at least years old! The thing about these bodies is that they are European; some wore tartan cloaks, trews no kilts!

So the Chinese tried to hide these bodies from the world, especially the west, as the belief was that the east influenced the west!

A few decades ago an American was officially visiting the Museum in which these bodies were hidden and 'oh dear bugger' the Chinese had left the door to the room in which these bodies were hidden, unlocked. The American found the bodies and informed the west and so on! The Chinese hid these bodies as the local people in the area are not Asian and the area is important to the Chinese Government! What is it the Christians say?

It makes you think doesn't it? If you are open minded enough!!! Now I feel a little history lesson is in order for the morons out there who read this and those who have written to Martin, who have made some bone head comments!

For the likes of Emily! Where in the hell did you get your information on the convicts from? I don't know what upsets me more, your stupidity or the fact that you would write such a comment! You obviously know nothing about the Celts Emily! So here goes; The Celts once controlled most of Europe, they were the first to work iron in the area etc. Italy when they were soundly defeated by the Romans, followed by Julius Caesar's conquest of Gaul 58 B.

They of course brought with them the English language, then came the Vikings. They raided settled and married Irish, Scots and Pictish Celts in what was left of the once great Celt peoples, so watering down the blood.

In the Anglo-Normans invaded Ireland on request of an Irish king to help him get his crown back. They moved into Wales and Scotland the later peacefully to some extent so do we get the picture? There are NO full blooded Celts left! What we call the Celts today, the Irish, Scots, Welsh, Manx, Cornish and Breton, are really just people who have only just managed to hold onto the odd Celtic custom and language! Yes its true, by the English so it wasn't Celts taking convicts to Aussie it was Germans taking Celtic convicts!

And if you don't believe me go to Wicklow gaol! Learn History properly Emily! Do not go for the Romanised stuff! Hate to tell you this M, but the Vikings discovered America before Columbus and it may well be they heard about it from the Gaels Irish Celts and their myths and legends, as did the early Spanish explorers.

M is not a Celt M. Well I have that off my chest! All our ancestors did things that we today are not proud of but why we need to hide it in the closet with any other ancestral skeletons we find is beyond me! My ancestors the Celts hunted heads, were madly fond of war and went into battle naked and drunk on honey mead, but the had their good points too.

They had an equality society where men and women were equal and the list goes on! The Maori were here before my people who left Ireland to come here to own land, as they weren't allowed to own their own land in Ireland the Irish were sold back their land by the English gentry in the s when they became a free state! And I don't really care what happens to the land. As I see it I'm a caretaker of the land, as were my forebears whereever they lived! So when I die I hand it onto the next caretaker and hope they care for it as I do, for at the end of the day the land owns me 'cos that's where I'll be buried 6ft under!

This all said and done I am very interested in human history; I have my own theories, which I keep to myself. I've been told by a Maori elder; stories of a people here before them. But they may just be stories or they could be fact. Why should we stop someone from finding out? If Martin fails what has he lost? At least he tried. If he succeeds we get a new chapter in our history! So keep going Martin think outside that square! Still not sure about the Celts being here first but you never know!

Nice site and if you've never read Land Marks of the Tainui Vol. It's very difficult to find an appropriate term or title for describing the tremendous mix of peoples who amalgamated to become the Celts or who later interrelated with remnant Celts to become English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh.

In this regard I can sympathise with Emily's umbrella term referring to anyone of British stock If one is being very precise about a particular historical incident and point in time, involving European peoples, then use of such a generalised and broad term Celt would, most oft, be totally inappropriate. I use the umbrella term myself for the convenience of giving a general idea of the the kind of ethnic stock who settled New Zealand in ancient times.

I have seen where prominent British historians do the same thing when describing the pre-Celtic people of Britain, before the advent of the Celts around B. Technically, I'm in agreement that the Celtic era, as such, was a little too late to truly describe the earliest "Stone People" occupations of New Zealand, although a very adept associate feels my estimates are a little too early.

If he's correct then some of the migrants to these shores might have qualified as "true blue" Celts. The evidence would suggest continued comings, goings and pre-colonial visits by a wide variety of groups, right up until the late era Spanish mariners.

Emily was commenting more specifically on the sentiments of the Australian Aboriginal people when they witnessed "white European convicts" in chains, which they saw as unusually harsh and cruel punishment.

Her focus was more on the activity than the specific categories of family groups, within European communities, of the sufferers. Her use of "Celts" was simply another way of saying "Europeans"of British stock.

There's a huge amount of archaeological and historical work to do in New Zealand. Our country must qualify as one of the most neglected regions for open scientific investigation anywhere on the face of the globe. I readily admit that I am probably not as educated, or maybe aware as some of the people who use this site.

I entered only out of interest and hopeful of further educating myself as this subject is close to my heart because of my particular genetic cocktail, being Scots, Irish, Danish and of course the ever present Maori, which it would seems from my readings on your site I should be ashamed of, not so, I embrace it as I do everything else that makes me, me.

Your us and them attitude lessens the value of your site and lessens your argument that it is not the place for politics. I suggest that you do not try and validate your argument by joining people in the gutter for what you call a shit fight. Hi Trish, some time ago a letter came in, which accused me of being a racist for having the temerity to question politically correct, racially sensitive, sanitised New Zealand history.

I took offence to the tone of the letter and reacted fairly strongly. I'm not particularly interested in wearing other people's labels, only in what constitutes valid history. For many years now, here and abroad, people seeking to uncover historical facts or deviating from the approved line of questioning, have been labelled racists and unceremoniously dismissed for expressing unofficial viewpoints about who did what.

This most successful ploy of recent years, aimed at stifling any in-depth discussion before it begins, has sent many a questioning historian, archaeologist, anthropologist or politician from the stage, cowering in shame. No-one wants to wear that ultimate derogatory label and it has been the most successful "shut you up and shut you down" tactic of the past two decades. But, alas, the tactic's not working so well these days Its impact has been nullified by overuse With all the "kill a white" or "flotsam and jetsam of Britain" type comments of recent years, as well as the utter distortion of colonial history to endlessly portray the Brits as evil, land grabbing, despotic bullies, many Europeans have become thick skinned and immune to the continuous barrage of insults.

Apparently only Europeans can be labelled "racists" All of the social problems that beset Maori today can be attributed to Turia's "post colonial trauma disorder syndrome", we're told, and blamed upon European's for coming here in the first place and disrupting the tranquil setting.

Amongst other things, Europeans are blamed for deliberately "killing the Maori language" by not allowing Maori children to speak their language at school. We're told the horror stories of cruel "Masters and Mistresses" punishing the Maori children for speaking Maori In about a large delegation of Maori, numbering over leaders, made representations before the Government about the inclusion of Maori children in the colonial British school system.

The delegation laid down strict rules of what was required, as they'd concluded that it was imperative that Maori children become quickly adept and conversant with the English language. The delegation said that the first and foremost subject of study for their children would be English, the second subject would be English and the third subject would be English.

They requested that "Masters and Mistresses" who were assigned to their districts be "non Maori speakers" and that the children were to be forbidden to speak Maori at school. It was to be English at school and Maori at home or on the Marae. The Victorian colonial teachers assigned to the country schools acted according to the requirements and policies laid down by Maori leaders.

Generations later the issue is used to show the dominating cruelty and cultural insensitivity of Europeans and is yet another example of how valid history can be distorted to unfairly apportion blame.

This is the level of discussion that I've, from time to time, been dragged down to when, in fact, my entire area of study is pre-Maori history. I'm interested in the ancient Mediterranean cultural symbols that have filtered through to late era Maori and in tracing those symbols back to their earliest known sources. My main area of study is residual structures, like "standing stone circles" for astronomy or "beehive house stone dome villages" for domestic occupation, etc.

Although I receive tremendous help and support from many Maori, there are others who take a very dim view of anyone questioning their official, scrubbed and polished, much modified version of history Just as both you and I are a "genetic cocktail" of many groups, so were pre-colonial Maori.

The Tangata-whenua were a mix of red headed and blond Europeans, Asians, Melanesians, South Americans and the issue of all manner of early groups intermingling across the vastness of Oceania. This fact is acknowledged by many Waitaha, but these days severely censored in other Maori quarters. These are the "unmentionable ancestors", who many Maori don't wish to acknowledge, perhaps because they represented the remnant "slave class", without mana I've never wanted an "us and them" situation to arise Perhaps it's time to remove those letters from the feedback section of the website.

My policy has been to let anyone have their say and to call me what they like Sunday, April 28, 4: Dear Sir I have just browsed through your site and would like to offer some advice on your quest for info on the ancient history of our country. I am a male of Te Atiawa, Maniapoto, European decent. Being brought up around my old people and hearing bits of information throughout my upbringing on the history of my people where I live I feel there are some areas of information you are not sourcing.

My grandmothers last message to us, [ and vast was her knowledge] was "Te Atiawa never had a waka and never forget". Now for myself this tells me that the Te Atiawa iwi have always been here or are descended from an earlier tribe who were. To state that because there are Celtic looking ruins in NZ so therefore the Maoris weren't here first is a naive assumption.

These people I believe were a mixture of all cultures who have lived and settled here. New Zealand is a country far richer in history than most realize. If one truly wanted to find things out I believe the first place to look would be amongst the kaumatua, historians, and knowledgeable within the various iwi around our country.

You must realize that to talk to the people who currently call themselves Tangata Whenua may not have been living in the area of investigation at the time in question. Tribes roamed in nomadic fashion for centuries for all kinds of reasons, war, conquest, food, eruptions and many more.

My own people once ruled over an area from Wellington to northland, also occupying parts of the South Island. Currently our boundaries are Northern Taranaki and parts of Wellington. I am trying to say that to talk to the current iwi of an area doesn't mean you are talking to the only iwi who can provide answers. Your reason for the cover up of the Northland site being that New Zealanders would not handle the controversy because of the land claims currently being disputed is wrong.

Only people who hang on to the large amount of red neck propaganda being spread around concerning the land claims would be upset. The land claims are a modern day legal issue to compensate New Zealand citizens who had something stolen from them illegally [the confiscations happened after the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi so we were all New Zealanders at the time]. I believe the reason is that if Celtic people lived here and proof is found it will cause a major upset in modern day archaeological theories and accepted information that is being taught to the masses all around the world.

To drop a bombshell like this on modern day society may cause history to be re written and cause more trouble than it's worth. Archaeologists are a group of people who dig something up, sit around the table after all the possible evidence has been sourced on the object then create their story on the subject. Sometimes they are way off the mark, as I have a cousin who was given the honour of being the guardian of an ancient burial area of our whanau.

He was taught ancient knowledge by our old ones [who are all gone now] and knows things that an archaeologist would give anything to know. Recently he returned from a trip overseas to find archaeologists digging up our whanau's bones tagging them and sending them off to their lab for analysis. His first reaction was to ask them what they were doing. They said "we are digging up the site so we can tell you how your ancestors lived". He eyeballed the archaeologist and with a low voice quietly said, "All you had to do was ask, I could have told you anything you wanted to know, but right now you can put my uncle's bones down and leave!

The moral of this story is if respect is shown and correct procedures are shown to the Tangata Whenua, the pathway to knowledge is easily found. My cousin will not talk to anyone who he even suspects to be an archaeologist now, and the area he watches over is private land.

He obtained a list of artifacts stolen and has requested their return [3 tonne in total]. He told me it hurts him every day they aren't returned but that they only found a small amount compared to what they missed. There are many people like my cousin in NZ but because of disrespect shown towards them and their culture they remain quiet and stand back in silence watching [sometimes using intimidating behaviour like leaving threatening letters on car windows] and look on in amusement at the ignorance.

I hope this has been helpful in someway, Nicholas Toa. Hi Nicholas, When in my late teens I spent two years living in Maori communities and in one small hamlet on the East Coast I was about the only paleface in town. I lived in the homes of Maori families, attended the hui's, tangi's and other functions on the Marae and worked in predominantly Maori construction gangs.

I was made to feel totally accepted, at ease and at home with my surroundings and admit to being quite chuffed when addressed in the Maori rendition of my name, Martene. In those years I was sometimes introduced to and had discussions with the very old Patriarchs and Matriarchal Kuias, many of whom still had chin mokos and some spoke very little or no English.

Knowledgeable elders and friends told me aspects of the history, but being so young, I didn't always listen as intently as I should have and missed out on many gems. This was in the middle sixties when New Zealand was a much less complex place and, as far as I could tell, we were all getting on remarkably well.

We used to talk openly about the "red headed Maoris", "waka blondes" or Moriori and there were still a lot of iwi in those years with the ginger tinge in the hair and freckled faces. I remember one elderly lady who still had traces of the ginger hair. She had a chin moko and spoke no English, although she looked fully European. I was told at the time that she was one of the original people, taken into a Maori family in about the 's's and raised within the community.

One of the primary problems of the "new history" being taught is that many of us, Maori and otherwise, have heard the old stories related by the elders and seen the evidence left by the earlier "stone people". Your area of the country has long been occupied and was a major ancient centre of the stone people, who left hundreds of carved hills, as well as standing stone markers and intricately carved boulders like the Puniho stone. Some of these items or structures are, undoubtedly, many thousands of years old.

I personally believe that giant PA's like Turaturamokai or Koru PA are too close in resemblance to "Celtic" palisaded fort construction not to draw a parallel and were, like so many thousands of other New Zealand PA's, originally built milleniums ago.

In recent years some of us have remembered anew the stories the elders told us and have begun to pour through old books where the oral tradition history is recorded. Even your own, Sir Peter Buck, buried just north of the Waitara Valley within the boundaries of your iwi, spoke openly of these things. I fully agree with you that, 'New Zealand is a country far richer in history than most realize. But how much are the truly learned kaumatuas allowed to say these days, when the power of leadership has so often shifted from the traditional royal families and knowledgeable elders to the more "corporate minded", kaumatuas?

Indeed, Maori are in a position to totally turn regional historical interpretation upside down by revealing artefact, oral tradition and skeletal evidence, related to the pre-Maori occupants of this country.

When the elders will not or cannot help us in this quest, then we turn to the landscape itself, as the profound knowledge of who was here and what they were doing still lies dormant in such things as stone positions. The landscape itself speaks very eloquently about astronomy, overland mapping or the measurement standard used to code seasonal cycles.

Somewhere along the line we've got to make a choice between whether we're going to deal with the "truth" or waste our time and that of our children learning pseudo history and fantasy. Whatever treaties Maori entered into with the British Crown are legally binding upon both parties, regardless of who was here before Maori. The gripe issuing forth from many Europeans or others including Maori, in recent years, has nothing to do with the Treaty of Waitangi, only the "interpretations" slick, modern lawyers have put on it's 's clauses.

I do not know if you are racist or not - perhaps you are not and I will assume such until I know more about you. However, upon reading through your site I must challenge some of the assumptions being made, which to my mind can only be regarded as being sourced in a delusion of European-supremacy the Superiority complex of Pakeha New Zealand.

When my ancestor Ngatoroirangi arrived upon Te Arawa waka he found earlier peoples here including Hapuoneone, Maruiwi even Patupairehe These people were not unknown to him because they too came from Hawaiki in earlier migrations - Note that it was Ngatoroirangi who brought the Patupairehe people to the inland mountain regions of Te Matapuna!.

These peoples had much intermarriage with each other and ALL of them are my ancestors. Yes my ancestors are Urukehu from Airihia and Kiripuwhero from Uru. What you erroneously claim is that my Urukehu ancestors were celts you then try and justify this by saying pre-celts. The People of Europe are the bastardised offspring of my Urukehu ancestors and Neanderthals.

It is thus that European ancestors like Darwin claim descent from Apes - because of the interbreeding between humans and Neanderthal Ape-men. The Aryan civilization of my ancestors encompassed a large area at the heart of which was the land of Khorasan that covers today's Afghanistan eastern Iran and Central Asian countries. These are the people whose mummified bodies are found in China and who crossed into America also. Polynesian tangata whenua and American tangta whenua all derive from Asia and before that back to Airihia according to true human lines from Eve in the Garden of Africa-Eden.

From here too they moved towards Europe and there encountered the neanderthal inhabitants of that peninsula.

I ask you this question, Who are the Picts? When the Neanderthal-Celts entered Scotland they found the Picts already there - a people who tattoed their bodies and spoke a language unknown to the celts. I say to you these people were tangata maori ancestors but their traces have been absorbed into the European bloodstream and the confused history and myth of the Romans and celts who followed them - this is how the celts got OUR swirling patterns from the Picts.

This is also why Europe was the font of all disease which afflicts the new world, the interbreeding of Human and Neanderthal made them sickly but immunity developed and then it was able to spread to those countries without immunity in Polynesia and America killing many in its influenza epidemics. This is the Assumption you make in error that the urukehu of Airhia were pre-celts when in fact they were not. The pre-celts of Europe are Neanderthals and the Urukehu people called Cro-magnon fossils in Europe interbreed with them creating the celt.

Your second assumption is that 'Maori' conquered and wiped out the tangata whenua. I am he tangata maori a human being of the Tuwharetoa iwi Nation and also Tangata whenua through intermarriage between Hapuoneone and Nga Oho of Te Arawa waka. Yes our ancestors were cannibals and ate the flesh of their enemies and slaves.

It was a common thing in ancient times. Our common Pict and neanderthal-celt ancestors also ate the flesh of enemies. But it was celt ancestors who would draw and quarter their enemies, impale them through the anus while they still lived, and burn men women and children on great pyres and watch as the screamed for mercy. Perhaps it was thus that the Pict was wiped out from history.

You state that, 'Hapuoneone, Maruiwi even Patupairehe' were already here when your ancestor 'Ngatoroirangi arrived upon Te Arawa waka' and that, 'These people were not unknown to him because they too came from Hawaiki in earlier migrations'.

Indeed, some of these early groups had formerly lived throughout Oceania, but because of warfare had to seek sanctuary in New Zealand or elsewhere. One of these early groups was "the children of Poutini", who were the offspring of Tangaroa, the God of ocean migrations. Tangaroa was described as "sandy haired" and had originally come from a land where the leaves only stayed on the trees for half the year. His offspring were finally chased from the isles of Oceania, including Tonga and Samoa, never to return.

The children of Poutini, amongst many others found by your people upon arrival from Hawaiki, were the great carvers of greenstone pounamu and are thus referred to in Maori oral tradition as "the greenstone folk".

Of the children of Poutini Maori oral tradition states, 'They were attacked here and lost a number of their people who were slain, which was a benefit to the Maori people.

The children of Poutini, like the "Moon Maidens" who were also the offspring of Tangaroa, were "urukehu" reddish golden tinged hair and "kiri puwhero" reddish, light complexioned skin. This was the era when, 'war, strife, quarrelling were brought hither by the people who came from Hawaiki'. Your more debasing assessment of my direct lineage seems to span over 35, years of human development in a sentence, linking archaic Neanderthals into a supposed amalgam of genetically inferior people, who culminated into "Celts" at a late era.

You separate out the earliest "Picts" of Ireland as a non-aligned, purer strain of undefiled people unsullied by Celtic contact who can be associated with your Maori lineage.

I have no idea to what degree my most ancient forbears wished to interbreed with Neanderthals or if an inferior, disease-ridden scourge class of human was, as you suggest, the result of such interrelationships Matthias Krings took and tested DNA from the right humerus.

The results were then replicated by Prof. As a result of these tests Prof. Mark Stoneking and his many colleagues expressed the bottom line conclusion by saying, 'These results indicate that Neanderthals did not contribute mitochondrial DNA to modern humans; Neanderthals are not our ancestors' see Uriel's Machine, pg. Whatever you might wish to believe in this case, we Caucasoid Europeans seem to have fared sufficiently well to establish successful functioning societies and don't seem to have retained any distinctly Neanderthal physical traits, such as the rocker jaw mandible.

My European forebears have long-since kept written records or oral traditions related to the interaction between our cousin peoples of the Northern Hemisphere, and these accounts span many thousands of years. My people left a network of waymark trails from former homelands in the Near East, as they migrated westward across the coastal stretches of North Africa toward the Straits of Gibraltar, or eastward to China hence the mummies of Urumchi and Korea.

They also left many gravesites and standing stone or cairn monuments during early era migrations from lands East and North of Egypt or within the boundaries of Egypt itself, onward to Continental Europe, the British Isles or elsewhere. Many or several of these unique cultural idiosyncrasies are clearly in evidence in the very ancient structures of New Zealand or are represented in primary symbols, ornate early era meeting houses, etc. Strangely enough, these same cultural symbols, in possession of Maori, are not so clearly in evidence or used by Polynesian cousin peoples in the isles from whence Maori came.

It is almost as if Maori developed a whole new culture upon arrival from Hawaiki. Traditions related to these earliest Irish settlers speak of a Mediterranean origin Men of the leather bags The name Pict is said to be a Latin term for "painted" Pictus and refer to the ferocious northern British tribes who besieged the Roman garrisons of England after about AD.

Other evidence suggests that some of their earliest Irish predecessors originally lived in burrows or subterranean dwellings. Late era Pictish art is some of the most intricate and beautiful to be found in the British Isles. We might concur on a point of belief that some these earliest inhabitants of Ireland probably found their way to Oceania and New Zealand and were related to the Turehu of this region.

Certainly, the early history of Ireland refers to the very small stature people Caucasoid pygmies who became known as the fairies and dwelt in subterranean abodes in the deep forests. Legends related to these early Pacific inhabitants extend to New Caledonia.

Although these people lived simply, they were highly skilled and intelligent. I believe that such people or a branch of their family tree built many of the early standing stone circle observatories of New Zealand.

The Greeks called late era Hebraic seafarers Phoenicians and one primary Phoenician colony was in Great Britain, where they maintained tin mines at Cornwall for many centuries prior to BC. It is clearly evident, in consideration of the ruined remnant structures scattered across the New Zealand landscape that these seafarers ranged as far as New Zealand and set up sizable colonies here and in Australia in ancient times. My mention of rampant cannibalism amongst Maori, for which I've taken considerable flak, was, in part, originally in response to accusations that colonial Europeans somehow "ruined" the tranquillity and social infrastructure of New Zealand by coming here.

New Zealand was once a very dangerous place to live and I believe the transformation from "what was" to "what is" has been mostly positive. The horrific impaling and gruesome death of which you speak was the fate of up to pacifist Moriori in the initial siege of the Chathams Rekohu or Wharekauri by Ngati Mutunga and Ngati Tama, part of the Ngati Te Atiawa confederation.

The ultimate indignity for the Morori, however, came much later from spokespeople like Willy Jackson and others, who in recent years have publicly stated words to the effect that, 'most scholars agree that the Moriori people never actually existed and were purely an invention of colonial Europeans'.

Similar statements were made about the Waitaha people. Because of such attitudes and non-recognition of existence or status, remnant Moriori have no rights to ownership of their rich fishing grounds around the economic zone of the Chatham's.

Perhaps one of the more racist and bigoted sites on the internet. This site is completely eurocentric and denies Maori ancestry recognition of any technological advance- even of the most basic kind shown to have been used in civilsations the world over. We have very definite anomalies on our New Zealand landscape or "out of time and place" skeletons in our burial caves that are causing us to question our very limited "official" history.

The choices that are available to us under the circumstances are:. I have read your web page with interest and enthusiasm. I am the author of the book "Atlantis: You should read it because it supports your views and not those of Mark Newbrook.

I had dozens of disputes with him. He describes himself as a modern scholar, but his views are as antediluvian as the dinosaurs. My book locates Atlantis, which was not a sunken continent in Plato as Newbrook and some other scholars define , but just a partially sunken island. I wonder if you would be interested or if you would know any open-minded scholar interested in a massive similarity of cognates between two linguistic groups: Although they may have been the results of ancient contacts, and we may not claim a linguistic relationship yet.

Even if all those would be loanwords, it must mean physical contacts in remote times. Mark has criticized, heavily, my material that has been prepared on an academic level, with a table of comparisons between each of the 43 Philippine languages, and a graph demonstrating that the results are quite scientific and not accidental: Mark's opinion was that my work was totally unnecessary and amateurish, and that the linguistical classification of those minor languages has been done by proper scholars long ago.

The only problem with his idea, I suspect, is that those alleged scholars have never published their results, but kept them in their drawers forever. We could construct a lexico-statistical diagram out of the similarities of basic word lists for those Philippine languages. Although the formula given by Swadesh I do not remember the correct spelling is obviously inaccurate, even David Crystal admits that there is no better way available yet. About 70 years ago a Hungarian traveller, Vilhelm originally Vilmos Hevesy or Hevesi published a serious and nice, thick book entitled "Munda-Magyar-Maori.

Unfortunately, the world has forgotten his results. India are very convincing and have survived in many books, despite the militant opposing views like the ones represented by Mark. I wish to call your attention to the Egyptian dictionary of Sir E.

It lists hundreds, or rather thousands of old Egyptian words as they were transcribed or pronounced. I do not remember the title, but it was published about , in two or three thick books in small format. The hieroglyphs and the corresponding words are listed side by side, only not in English alphabetical order. I made at least 10 pages of notes, marking down hundreds of words.

I still have them here in Brazil. You can identify a surprisingly high number of English, German or Spanish word roots in that ancient Egyptian vocabulary. I believe that many women found creative, unique, and intensely meaningful ways to confess and express their desire for other women. Carol Lasser, has documented that Victorian women in America, in order to formalize "Romantic Friendships" with other women, sometimes married brothers, becoming sisters-in-law and sharing a surname.

She theorizes that marrying brothers "deepened their intimacy, extending it in new directions, further complicating the intricate balance of emotional and material ties, and perhaps offering a symbolic consummation of their passion" for each other. The unique arrangements of Mormon polygamous households provided a potential medium for Lesbian expression among women who could easily albeit covertly eroticize each other's bodies through the gaze of their shared husband.

Indeed at least one Mormon woman went so far as to request that her husband marry polygamously after she fell in love with another woman, so that the two women could openly live together.

Sarah Louisa Bouton married Joseph Felt in as his first wife but according to a biography, around , Louie the masculinized nickname she used met and "fell in love with" a young woman in her local LDS congregation named Alma Elizabeth Lizzie Mineer. But Lizzie's new responsibilities of bearing and raising children evidently proved too great a strain for her and Louie's relationship.

Five years later Louie Felt fell in love with "another beautiful Latter-day Saint girl" named Lizzie Liddell, and again Joseph obligingly married her for Louie's sake. Thus Louie "opened her home and shared her love" with this second Lizzie.

In , 33 year old Louie Felt met 19 year-old May Anderson, and they also fell in love. This time, however, May did not marry Joseph Felt. In May moved in with Louie, and Joseph permanently moved out of the house Louie had built and bought on her own.

These two women lived together for almost 40 years, and together presided over three of Mormonism's most significant institutions: According to their recent biographer, Felt and Anderson's relationship was a "symbiotic partnership with each compensating for the weaknesses and complementing the strengths of the other". The Children's Friend biography more bluntly declared that "the friendship which had started when Sister Felt and [May Anderson] met Those who watched their devotion to each other declare that there never were more ardent lovers than these two".

The same biography also calls the beginning of their relationship a "time of love feasting", and makes it clear that the two women shared the same bed. For centuries, the biblical characters David and Jonathan have been classic signifiers of male-male desire and homoeroticism, because in the Hebrew scriptures, it was written in 2 Samuel 1: See David-Edward Desmond's gravestone for another Mormon reference to this homoerotic scripture.

While polygamy was instigated by Mormon men but subsequently appropriated by their wives as a powerful source for homosociality , the women themselves created structures and discourses of sorority which allowed Lesbian expression.

The all-female Relief Society and Young Ladies' Mutual Improvement Association, as well as other early expressions of Mormon feminism, are all examples of female homosocial enclaves within the larger, male- dominated structures of power. In the papers of Mormon Lesbian poet Kate Thomas is the clipping of a poem which appears to have been printed in the Young Women's Journal at the turn of the century. The poem, written by Sarah E. Pearson and entitled "Sister to Sister", beautifully describes the intensity of homosocial sorority that Pearson encountered "in the sunlight of the Gospel of Christ".

For Pearson, Mormonism did not divide women against each other, but made of them sisters, and. Freeze, a fifty-year veteran of both the Young Ladies' Mutual Improvement Association and Primary general boards, recalled in that "through these [all-female] agencies the women were seeking 'the life more abundant', desiring to bless and comfort each other and to cultivate the longing for higher things than the social pleasures of the day could afford", again recalling Adrienne Rich's definition of the Lesbian continuum.

Felt and May Anderson of the Primary apparently had no troubles reconciling their passionate relationship and their religion, other early Mormon women found it more difficult. For example, Kate Thomas , a prolific, turn-of-the-century Mormon playwright and poet, withdrew somewhat from Mormonism while exploring her attraction to other women.

Thomas, who never married, left Utah for New York City and Europe in but still maintained contact with Mormonism by writing lessons and poetry for the Relief Society and Young Ladies' manuals and magazines while on her extended absences. However, some of her poetry of that same period reflects a growing disaffection with Mormonism.

Her father, Richard Kendall Thomas was avidly theatrical, acting as choreographer for the Salt Lake Theater in its early days and then turning the family barn into a professional theater called the Barnacle. At the age of nineteen Thomas began keeping a private journal of what she called her "love poetry" while attending courses in Salt Lake City at the LDS Business College.

This journal consists almost entirely of love poems written to other women. Thomas also became an outspoken peace activist, anarchist, supporter of the very controversial League of Nations, and practitioner of Yoga. While having difficulties with her religion, it is clear in her writings that Thomas was able to reconcile her sexuality with her spirituality:.

But were I all the bards that ever sung Turned into one transcendent immortelle It seems to me I still would lack the tongue To say how long I'd love her or how well! Fall on her daily doubled o'er and o'er When world on world and worlds again shall roll God grant that we two shall still stand soul to soul! In other poems written around the same time, I believe she used the word "gay" as a double entendre to mean both happiness and same-sex desire.

The following short poem is an example:. A scarlet West; An East merged into eventide. A brown plain And by my side The one - the one in all the world I love the best! Last night's gay mask - The outward wildness and the inward ache I cast off forever; from her lips I take joy never-ceasing.

Brown plain and her kiss Are all I ask. The word "gay" was used to describe same-sex male desire in the United States as early as That it meant homosexual desire to her is supported by the fact that the only time she used the word "gay" outside of poems written to other women, was in a poem about "Gay Narcissus", who has traditionally signified same-sex especially male desire.

The following is a brief passage:. She raised her eyes. There looking I beheld The Sound of Music through the eyes of love. One historian commented that in this poem "the poet is speaking in the voice of one female to another Cornelia Cora Kasius was another Mormon Lesbian who left Utah for New York City, where she could gain economic security and career advancement, as well as explore her sexuality like thousands of other women who flocked to the anonymity of a large metropolis.

She also worked for 17 years as the publications editor for the Family Service Association of America, authored a number of books on social work, and in was honored by the National Conference on Social Welfare for her leadership role in social work. In the late s Kasius moved to Grammercy Park where she remained until her death in June Her family still lovingly remembers Cora for her intellect, humor, warmth, and generosity.

These women found avenues for exploring passion between women within official Mormon structures such as the Relief Society. Thus it comes as no surprise that the most radical discourse of Mormon sorority, that of early Mormon feminism, also created vital space in which women could desire other women romantically and sexually.

Historian of Mormon feminism, Maxine Hanks, has recovered one of the most important documents relating to Lesbianism in Victorian America: In the 's Mormon women began publishing an ecclesiastically sanctioned feminist periodical called the Woman's Exponent. The 15 April issue reprinted from a New York paper an article by the pseudonymous "Fanny Fern", tellingly entitled "Women Lovers". To clarify the possibly confusing wording of the document, I should explain that two kinds of "women lovers" are being described: The complete text of this brief but remarkable article follows:.

Women Lovers Perhaps you do not know it, but there are women who fall in love with each other. Woe be to the unfortunate she, who does the courting! All the cursedness of ingenuity peculiar to the sex is employed by "the other party" in tormenting her.

She will flirt with women by the score who are brighter and handsomer than her victim. She will call on them oftener. She will praise their best bonnets and go into ecstasies over their dresses. She will write them more pink notes [love letters], and wear their 'tin- types,'[photos] and when despair has culminated, and sore-hearted Araminta takes to her bed in consequence, then only will this conquering 'she' step off her pedestal to pick up her dead and wounded.

But then, women must keep their hand in. This significant article colors the women of the Exponent , and indeed of the entire early Mormon feminist movement, a distinct shade of lavender. As Gay Mormon historian D. Michael Quinn explains, Louise L. Greene's decision, as editor of the Woman's Exponent , to reprint this brief essay "indicates her assumption that 'Women Lovers' was of interest to Mormon women.

The author merely warns women to be careful when loving other women - not to be victimized by exploitive and destructive women. The closing statement "practice makes perfect" indicates that Lesbian desire is complete and perfect in and of itself, and is not a precursor to heterosexuality. It was also Harriet Tubman's name when she still lived in slavery. Newspapers critical of Mormon polygamy also published cartoons of polygamous relationships as salacious and lascivious.

Some cartoonists could not resist titillating the public with quasi-Lesbian images of multiple women sharing one bed with their lone husband. As the 15 or so wives clamor to get into one large bed, their husband claps his hands in glee and says, "O let us be joyful" not legible in the image below.

The observer is left to ponder what the obviously sexually-anxious women will do who can't get close to the solitary man in the bed. On the other end of the spectrum of visual images of Mormon women is the so-called "Domineering" polygamous woman, heavily masculinized from the "first wave" of Feminism.

While Mormon leaders were generally viewed as firmly in control of the Church, some humorists took the opposite view. Smith flanked by five "formidable" wives, who look like robust men in drag.

Another, similar cartoon from shows a well-dressed Mormon dandy being chased by four angry, masculinized polygamous wives who sport "Feminism" sashes. The humorist observes that thus "Mormonism Is on the Wane in Utah".

Four muscular women attack a symbolic Mormon man, from Life , June 25, I am endebted to the work of Davis Bitton and Gary L. Visual Images of Mormon Women to ", which contains the information on and reprints of these cartoons. In , after the death of both her parents, prominent Salt Lake Lesbian, Edith Mary Chapman opened her home just across the street from and to the north of Liberty Park as a boarding house for other Lesbians, most of whom were LDS or had a Mormon background.

Chapman herself had been raised Episcopalian, although her mother had been a member of the ill-fated Martin Handcart Company of Mormon immigrants.

The young, orphaned Sarah Ann was married off polygamously at the age of 14 to the 42 year old George Handley. Sarah Ann was pregnant within a week of her marriage and at the age of 23 found herself the widowed mother of four small children. Embittered by her experiences in Mormonism especially church-sanctioned pedogamy - adults marrying children , she left the church and joined the Anglican Communion, belying the common Mormon belief that all Martin Company survivors remained faithful to the Mormon religion.

Arvis Chapman's sister, Ann E. Chapman was also a Lesbian, and Utah's first public librarian. A year later, Chapman met Mildred "Barry" Berryman , another Episcopalian Lesbian from Salt Lake who had converted to Mormonism briefly in her youth, at least long enough to receive a Patriarchal Blessing, as documented by Michael Quinn.

Mildred's first female lover had been Mae Anderson, a prominent violin teacher in Salt Lake who would join the LDS School of Music faculty in , where other prominent Mormon homo- and bisexuals taught.

The relationship of Berryman and Anderson lasted until about Edith had been in one previous relationship of several years duration with another female school teacher "who was masculine, dominating and aggressive", but the relationship was finally broken by the other woman, who "tired of [Edith's] persistent attention and ceaseless demands upon her time. While their romantic relationship only lasted a short time, Barry continued living in the Lesbian boarding house until Berryman went on to complete her study of the homosexual community of Salt Lake thoroughly addressed in Michael Quinn's history of homosexuality and Mormonism.

After Grace Nickerson moved out of the house, Dorothy Graham replaced her. Dorothy was the Lesbian manager of the Coon Chicken Inn in Salt Lake a well-known restaurant owned by her family, which featured male drag performers, such as Julian Eltinge, during the s and 30s.

Around this time, Carline Monson joined the women, as a live-in cook at the boarding house. This aunt of Apostle Thomas S. Monson never married, although she reffered to herself as "Mrs.

In the mids, Edith Chapman closed the boarding house, leaving the home to Carline Monson, and moved to Berekely, California. Julian Eltinge, female impersonator and movie star, circa - Slated to appear at the Mormon Tabernacle but was banned, so "she" performed at the Coon Chicken Inn in Salt Lake instead [click on image to enlarge].

Sometime around late May or early June , the famous homosexual clairvoyant, George Benjamin Wehner, conducted a seance at the Mormon Tabernacle. Wehner had just spent one year traveling through Europe, the Mediterranean, and the Middle East with his lover, and upon return to the United States had reconnected wtih his longtime patrons, Teresa "Tessy" Phebe Kimball Werner, her sister Winifred Kimball Hudnut, and Mrs.

Hudnut's bisexual daughter, Winifred Kimball Shaughnessy aka Natacha Rambova , the actress, danceuse, and extraordinary movie set designer who was married to silent film star, Rudolph Valentino, allegedly also bisexual. The extremely wealthy Winifred Kimball Hudnut, famous throughout the United States and France as a spiritualist and theosophist, had been introduced to Wehner through her daughter, Natacha Rambova.

The homosexual psychic Wehner had been a vaudeville actor and singer, and had also composed the very popular Broadway hit, "I Want My Mammy", which had been sung in "black face" by the famous comedic actor Eddie Cantor in 's Broadway musical, The Midnight Rounders.

Rambova employed Wehner for quite some time to assist her in contacting her dead ex-husband, Valentino, to receive messages from him in "the astral plane".

These messages and her memoirs of their life together were published in a year after their divorce and just months after his death as Rudy: This was then reprinted in abbreviated form a year later as Rudolph Valentino, Recollections.

In , George Wehner published his own memoirs of his life as a clairvoyant and stage performer. The very last page of his autobiography tells of his visit with the Kimball family consistently misspelled by Wehner in Salt Lake City a year earlier.

While in the Tabernacle, Wehner had extraordinary visions of and received "intimate" messages from Heber C. Here, on one never-to-be-forgotten day, the Tabernacle was closed to visitors for a while, and Edward P.

Kimbal [sic], the grandson of Heber C. As the noble tones of this great instrument swelled and reverberated about us in the lofty Tabernacle, I became clairvoyant and was aware of the presence of numerous spirits. For there I sat with Aunt Tessy, Mrs. Hudnut, and others of their relatives, all of them direct descendants of those brave and daring pioneers who suffered almost insurmountable difficulties for the sake of the religion which they felt to be right.

But after all, what place more suitable for the communion of souls? A force far stronger than I began to control me, although I was not unconscious, and I began to whisper rapidly the messages of those returned spirits. The messages were of a personal and intimate nature, and came from Heber C. At last these spirits faded away and I saw the whole interior of the Tabernacle shimmering in a glorious blaze of golden light, in the midst of which appeared in the air above the organ, the figure of a young man in blue robes holding a long trumpet of gold.

From my clairvoyant description of this radiant being my friends recognized the spirit as that of the Angel Maroni [sic], the son of Mormon who, it is said, led his fainting people across the plains and deserts to ultimate safety by showing his presence to them from time to time, as a beacon of faith and love. And what more infallible guide can any of us have than love? Angels of Light ever surround us, leading our faltering footsteps along the path of the Christ, ever upward on the spiraling way of progress and evolution to the very doors of God.

Wehner then concluded his memoirs with a two-page epilogue about the death of his grandmother - as a fulfillment of prophecy made five years earlier by Wehner's spirit guide, the Native American spirit White Cloud - on March 10, One of the most dramatic events in the history of Mormonism and homosexuality occurred in the s.

Bennett, a recent convert to Mormonism, arrived in Nauvoo, Illinois then LDS headquarters , and immediately began his rise to ecclesiastical prominence.

After Sidney Rigdon's refusal to allow his daughter to marry Smith polygamously, Bennett was given the title of Assistant President to the Church, placing him above either Smith's first counselor Rigdon or church patriarch, Hyrum Smith.

Bennett also became chancellor of the University of Nauvoo, mayor of Nauvoo, and a general in the Nauvoo Legion. But Bennett had a mysterious past, for he had risen to prominent positions in other cities, other social circles, only to be cast out and forced to move on. Rumors of Bennett's past began to circulate in Nauvoo. Men were sent by Joseph Smith to other towns where Bennett had lived, and they returned with sober news: Bennett had a long history as a "homo-libertine", according to Mormon historian Sam Taylor.

Being a physician, he would have known exactly how much to take to get sick but not to kill himself. This sham suicide attempt brought forgiveness and sympathy from both Joseph Smith and the church at large. Soon, however, more rumors circulated of Bennett's current practices in Nauvoo: Rumors of sodomy even reached non-Mormons.

The anti-Mormon Reverend W. King accused Nauvoo of being "as perfect a sink of debauchery and every species of abomination as ever was in Sodom and Nineveh". Sam Taylor felt that Bennett's "sexual antics" with men of the Nauvoo Legion cast aspersions of sodomy on "hell knows how many revered pioneers".

Edgar Lyon, thought that Bennett could not have been homosexual since he was also accused of seducing women. As Sam Taylor speculated, Joseph Smith could overlook just about anything but disloyalty. And Bennett turned disloyal, publicly espousing plural marriage, arguably Mormonism's best kept secret during these years. Taylor also felt that Smith dared not use accusations of sodomy against Bennett for fear of destroying the reputations of the young men whom Bennett had seduced, as well as not wanting the public to know that their "prophet, seer, and revelator" had put a sodomite in such a high position.

Instead, Smith claimed that Bennett had tried to enlist the Nauvoo Legion to assassinate Smith during one of their musters. After this alleged plot "failed", Bennett was publicly humiliated and privately threatened, then given the chance to recant.

Fearing for his life, he signed a statement saying that Smith had never taught or practiced polygamy, and left Nauvoo in May He was immediately released as Assistant President, excommunicated from the church, and lost his university chancellery and mayorship.

Bennett's signature as Mayor of Nauvoo, December 4, Bennett also claimed that Danites secret Mormon vigilantes dressed in drag attempted to murder him under the order of Joseph Smith.

Bennett wrote that on the night of June 29, , "twelve of the Danites, dressed in female apparel, approached my boarding house, Gen. Robinson's in Nauvoo, with the carriage wheels wrapped with blankets, and their horses feet covered with cloths, to prevent noise, about 10 o'clock, for the purpose of conveying me off and assassinating me, thus prevent disclosures - but I was so admirably prepared with arms, as were also my friends, that after prowling around the house for some time, they retired.

Then in July , Joseph's brother, William Smith, editor of a Mormon newspaper in Nauvoo, The Wasp , tried to silence Bennett's accusations by sarcastically writing that Bennett only saw Joseph Smith as "a great philanthropist as long as Bennett could practice adultery, fornication, and - we were going to say, Buggery, without being exposed".

Two years later a slander suit brought against Joseph Smith by Francis Higbee implied that he and his brother, Chauncey Higbee, had been sexually involved with Bennett through the Nauvoo Legion, where Higbee had been a colonel. During Higbee's slander suit, Brigham Young testified that he had "told Dr. Bennett that one charge against him was leading young men into difficulty - he admitted it.

If he had let young men and women alone it would have been better for him. Other testimony indicated that Bennett "led the youth that he had influence over to tread in his unhallowed steps. Bennett's non-Mormon biographer, Andrew F.

Smith, in The Saintly Scoundrel: The Life and Times of Dr. John Cook Bennett , found it "surprising that no one has ventured a biography" of Bennett, given his role in and influence on Nauvoo Mormonism p. Smith found that most biographical information on Bennett "remains highly inaccurate" and he is "needlessly shrouded in mystery. Because of Bennett's "meteoric rise" and "cataclysmic fall" in Nauvoo, Illinois in just 14 months, the church's official line must be that Bennett arrived in Nauvoo an educated, capable, honorable and good-hearted leader and administrator, who was simply led astray by evil temptations and then very publicly apostatized.

Otherwise Bennett's almost immediate presence and participation in the very highest councils of the church deeply challenges Mormonism. Bennett was set apart as Assistant President of the church, second only to Joseph Smith, on April 8, , just six months after his conversion.

University of Illinois Press, Taylor affirmed that "I was well acquainted with [Bennett]. At one time he was a good man, but fell into adultery, and was cut off from the church for his iniquity He then went lecturing through the country, and commenced writing pamphlets for the sake of making money, charging so much for admittance to his lectures, and selling his slanders.

Indeed when word was received in Salt Lake City that Bennett had in fact died in August , the Juvenile Instructor , an official church magazine for youth, published notice that Bennett "was despised by every one who knew him He dragged out a miserable existence, without a person scarcely to take the least interest in his fate, and died a few months ago without a person to mourn his departure".

Joseph Rick also wrote to fellow-Mormon Edward Hunter that Bennett had fulfilled Joseph Smith prophecy and had recently died "a vagabond on the Earth".

In fact, as Andrew Smith has thoroughly documented, this is completely erroneous. Bennett died just north of Des Moines, Iowa, surrounded by his 2nd wife, friends and neighbors who respected and appreciated Bennett. He also left an appreciable estate behind and has one of the largest tombstones in the Polk City Cemetery.

Juvenile Instructor , 3 July 15, Also belying the official church line, Bennett arrived in Nauvoo, not "a good man" as Apostle Taylor declared in France, but rather as a confirmed fraud, signature forger, charlatan, adulterer, spouse-abuser, liar, cheat, swindler, diploma counterfeiter and peddler, expelled Freemason, and confidence man, among many other dubious occupations, clearly intent on milking Mormonism and its members for all he could. Bennett forcefully craved power and fame, and found in Mormonism extremely fertile ground for his pretensions; a huge mass of gullible people who swallowed his nonsense without question.

Anotehr acquaintance of Bennett, Governor Thomas Ford of Illinois, wrote scathingly in that, "This Bennett was probably the greatest scamp in the western country. I have made particular enquiries concerning him, and have traced him in several places in which he lived before he joined the Mormons, in Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois, and he was everywhere accounted the same debauched, unprincipled, profligate character.

He was a man of some little talent, and in had the confidence of the Mormons, and particularly that of their leaders. Other than exhibiting certain stereotypical characteristics of homosexuality such as his love of music, flashy clothing - he loved to dress up as Napoleon and he designed the extremely ostentatious generals' uniforms for himself and Joseph Smith - and a penchant for theatrical and military drama, as well as personal dramatics that bordered on the masochistic , there is further evidence of Bennett having intimate relations with at least one other man after Nauvoo.

Andrew Smith, Bennett's biographer, points out that after leaving Nauvoo and during his brief foray into the Strangite schism of Mormonism headquartered in Voree, Wisconsin , Bennett "was clearly attracted to" and had a "passionate relationship with" a young physician named Pierce Bye Fagen of Ohio.

Apparently the two men had met around in Cincinnati, Ohio. In , after Bennett ingratiated himself sufficiently with James J. Strang, he submitted Dr. Fagen's name to Strang as professor of anatomy and surgery at the "Voree University of Wisconsin" what would prove to be yet another of Bennett's faux-institutions.

In fact, Bennett wrote six extremely heated and bizarrely animated letters to Strang about Fagen, claiming Fagen was on his way to Voree and demanding "for my sake and for God's sake , and for the sake of the church , and for your sake, do not let him leave" Voree until Bennett got there himself emphasis in original.

However, fortunately for Fagen, he had made other plans and was nowhere near Wisconsin. Apparently while living in Rockville, Iowa, Fagen had met another young man only 11 days younger than himself , a lawyer named Phineas McCray Casady and they decided to move together to Fort Des Moines, Iowa, arriving there on June 11, The two 28 year old bachelors in fact became "founding fathers" of the new-born city of Des Moines; Fagen is known to have executed the very first land deed in the town and also acted as the first town surveyor, laying out all the plots.

According to a compilation of Polk County, Iowa pioneer biographies, the two bachelor men " roomed, ate and slept together , 'boarding 'round,' first at the tavern of Martin Tucker They were firm chums The two men soon bought a cabin on "Coon Row" named for the nearby Raccoon River , located on 2nd Street and Vine, and moved their offices jointly into it.

Fagen moved in with Phineas McCray P. Casady for two years as bachelor "chums", rather than moving to Voree to join John C. Bennett in the Strangite schism of Mormonism. A year and a half after moving to Des Moines, undoubtedly feeling social pressure from fellow settlers, 29 year old Phineas decided to marry a 22 year old German native named Augusta Grimmel. The Polk County biographies relate that in at Dr. Francis Grimmel's newly built house, his "daughter, Augusta, and P.

Casady now known as the 'Judge' were married therein. It was a notable, jolly affair. The groom was popular, a lawyer, and [Democratic] candidate for State Senator. While Fagen lost to his "chum" in the senatorial election, he hadn't yet lost the relationship, despite Casady's marriage. A year after Casady married Grimmel, the 31 year old Fagen announced his own marriage to the woman who had been Mrs.

Casady's maid of honor, 16 year old Melissa P. In what I see as a male version of Lasser's "sororal model" of same-sex relationships of the 19th century, this dual marriage provided the two men with plenty of opportunities to spend time together without raising suspicions, allowing their wives the same privilege.

I note here that the word "chum" was used twice in to describe the relationship between Fagen and Casady.

Interestingly Evan Stephens director of the Tabernacle Choir also used the word "chum" and "boy-chum" in to describe his many intimate same-sex relationships with other Mormon youths, from John J. Ward onward see below. The Oxford English Dictionary notes that from the s to the mids, the word "chum" etymologically from "chamber-mate" referred specifically to both prisoners and students who share sleeping chambers.

Only after the mids did the word begin to refer generally to a "friend". Since prisoners and British students are notoriously transgressive in their sexual behavior, "chum" certainly could have had an "underground" sexualized meaning.

Furthermore, the former quote emphasizes that Fagen and Casady both "roomed Phineas Casady, besides being a lawyer, later became postmaster of Des Moines, member of the First Baptist Church, an Odd Fellow, district judge, land speculator, printer, and banker among other things. He and his wife, Augusta Grimmel Casady, had three children. Pierce Fagen, the discouraged Whig, suddenly caught gold fever and left for California with a brother.

In July , Fagen went into medical practice for two years with L. Bennett had some affiliation with. Fagen soon sent for Melissa Hoxie Fagen but she died at Yankee Jims, Placer County, California on January 30, , probably as a result of giving birth to her second child in Fagen however made a lot of money, ran for the California state assembly unsuccessfully also in Around , Fagen moved to Santa Cruz, California, and after almost 20 years of renewed bachelerhood, the widower then married 33 year old widow Mary E.

Perry Jordan in who had three children from her previous marriage. She also owned the property that is now the University of California Santa Cruz campus, where I work. Following the established pattern of his life, Fagen set up a joint medical practice with Dr.

Clark and the two men built their houses within a block of each other on Mission Street, living near each other for the rest of their lives. Although his new wife was still young and had already borne other children, the couple had no children; Fagen's two sons by his first marriage were raised in his mansion the largest in Santa Cruz in by a governess from New York.

Bennett was vilified publicly as a bugger because he publicly admitted that Mormon leaders were practicing polygamy. This is an important factor in our understanding Mormon sexuality and Mormon heterosexual panic, as I call it.

As stated earlier, Joseph Smith had just begun to deify heterosexuality with his doctrine of the Father and Mother in Heaven. Mormons found themselves in the ironic position of having to protect this deification, eternalization, and multiplication of heterosexuality by exposing Bennett's acts of buggery with men. This is not the only time accusations of homosexuality, whether true or not, were used by Mormons in their political battles. In , Mormon leaders used homosexual accusations to politically destroy the character of one of their own elite.

Thomas Taylor, the wealthy polygamous bishop of the Salt Lake 14th Ward, was excommunicated for masturbating with several young men in Southern Utah. In Brent Corcoran's brilliant biography of Thomas Taylor which focuses on his conflict over business dealings with church leaders and his apparently accurate claim that he was repeatedly "swindled" by church president John Taylor [no relation] and First Counselor, George Q.

Cannon , he reports that ironically, prior to Taylor's fall from grace, he and his first wife Elizabeth in fact received their so-called "second anointings" in June The couple later perform a foot-washing ritual on each other in the privacy of their own home to complete the anointing, which, to the faithful, guarantees the eternal exaltation and eventual godhood of the couple.

As Corcoran has documented, Thomas Taylor was made bishop of the Salt Lake Fourteenth Ward in and a year later an assistant trustee-in-trust for the whole church. Taylor tried his hand at various capital ventures, such as being a hotelier, and then an iron and railroad magnate. But his alleged debt to the church incurred while assisting Mormons migrate to Utah and the ensuing conflicts and swindles kept him regularly in debt or worse throughout most of his life.

Cannon duo arose over iron properties that Thomas Taylor owned and wanted to develop in Iron County at a profit to both himself and his church.

However church leaders refused both to assist him develop it and to allow gentile non-Mormon control of the properties. Bishop Taylor then tried to sell his own share to President Taylor but on April 28, , John Taylor recorded that he received a revelation from God mandating that "it is forbidden my Presidency to go into debt unless I, the Lord, command it. Confer with him on this subject, and if he can see these things and follow council he shall assist you in the developments contemplated.

However Thomas Taylor was sure that this revelation meant "that God wanted him to turn over all properties to the church without consideration of payment. Cannon, who then plead with Thomas "to get up some kind of company so as to let Mr. John Taylor, George Q. However, in direct violation of their signed agreement, both John Taylor and his First Counselor immediately sold shares of stock to their sons, George Taylor and Abraham Cannon, "and secured for them directorship in the new company" effectively giving the Taylor-Cannon camp complete control of the company.

Still Thomas stayed the course. And yet again found his signed agreement with Taylor-Cannon violated in December when John Taylor "offered to purchase shares at a 50 percent discount on behalf of the church" in order to finance a railroad for transporting coal to the iron works.

At the final company meeting, Thomas Taylor "abruptly left the room" shortly after it began because he "felt that his presence was not necessary"; it was apparent to the bishop that the First Presidency would do whatever it wished, no matter what Taylor felt about it. Apparently John Taylor had asked Thomas in the meeting to sell his stock in the company. Thomas refused and threatened a law suit against the directors.

The church president one-upped him by threatening him with excommunication, our first hint that Taylor's membership in the "kingdom of God" would not survive his business relationship with President John Taylor.

Just over a year after IMCU was dissolved and Thomas Taylor was threatened with excommunication , "Angus Cannon, president of the Salt Lake State and Bishop Thomas Taylor's ecclesiastical superior, received via church president John Taylor the report of a special investigation by President Thomas Jones of the Parowan Stake where Thomas's iron properties were located" in July , concerning his "lascivious conduct with certain young men" two years earlier. Taylor, who had been arrested the year previous for cohabitation with his polygamous wives, was now facing charges from four young men that he "had taught them the crime of Masturbation".

Simkins and William W. Simkins of Cedar City, and a fourth, unnamed teenager out of the area during the trial who alleged that Thomas Taylor had on several occasions slept with them and during the night had used their hands to masturbate him. Cannon's brother, and Thomas's superior in the church hierarchy, recorded in his diary that the high council of the Salt Lake Stake suspended Taylor as bishop of the Fourteenth Ward without even conducting a hearing and allowed Thomas Jones of Parowan to conduct the formal trial in southern Utah, far from church headquarters.

As Corcoran points out, Taylor should have been tried by his own local leaders, rather than those of the area where the alleged homosexual incidents took place and I fully agree with Corcoran that the church leaders surely wanted Taylor punished but with as little public exposure and scandal as possible. Since President John Taylor also had a son Arthur Bruce Taylor who was apparently homosexually-inclined and whom had moved to Oregon just two years previously after "coming out" to Taylor's counselor, Joseph F.

Smith, I believe President Taylor may have had further reason to keep the topic of sodomitical practices away from public debate in Salt Lake City, thus necessitating the change of trial venue to Parowan. However the anti-Mormon elements of the Salt Lake Tribune were obsessed with uncovering anything scandalous about the church, and soon news of the ecclesiastical proceedings reached the columns of the Tribune.

In August , the Tribune went so far as to accuse Taylor of being "guilty of a horrible and beastly sin" and interestingly reiterated that he was "a polygamist" and then i n another editorial asked if Taylor should be "prosecuted in the courts?

Or is there no law against sodomy, either, in this most lawless of Territories. However he did admit that he had masturbated with 18 year old Richard Williams, also confessing that was "not the first one I practiced in my life, but was the first since I joined the Church" as a teenager.

To confuse things even more, Taylor later called the incidents "trumped up slander". Cannon on September 22, , Thomas confessed his "sins" altough he does not enumerate them and asked to be reinstated into full fellowship with the church:. I am ashamed to think that I have been so weak and I feel to cry God be merciful to me, and I want my brethren to be merciful to me[. Oh, help me to come back to [God's] favor. I expect to have offended you greatly[. I am suffering terribly.

My nerves are unstrung[. I cannot sit still, nor sleep, when I doze off to sleep, I wake and see before me ["]excommunicated["], and my wife suffers almost if not quite as much as bad, and I feel for her because it is my doing and I ought to be alone the sufferer, and I will try to endure. I do not want to apostatize[. Despite this plea for forgiveness, none was forthcoming, for Thomas Taylor had committed two unspeakable crimes: The church-owned Deseret News announced on August 28, that Taylor had been excommunicated, although in fact he had only been disfellowshipped and released as bishop by the Salt Lake Stake high council:.

It becomes our duty to chronicle the fall of a man who has long been associated with the Church. It is sad that such a useful life should thus have been blighted.

The fact is published with deep sorrow. It is authenticated beyond room for doubt that he has been excommunicated from the Church The cause of action was unchristianlike and immoral conduct, and contempt of the High Council.

The law of God, which demands that the Saints shall preserve themselves in purity, must be enforced no matter who the guilty parties may be. Cannon had "swindled" Taylor in their business dealings and that, in fact, "President Taylor was himself responsible for spreading the 'dirty stories,' planning to replace Thomas Taylor with his son as bishop of the Fourteenth Ward", according to Corcoran.

Taylor, was ordained as the new bishop for the 14th Ward on October 11, In the meantime, another of George Q. Cannon, became central to yet another sex scandal in the church hierarchy.

John Nicholson was preaching in the Tabernacle in September and obliquely referred to the current Thomas Taylor scandal when he spoke of men who misdirect "the use of the powers of life that have been implanted in the nature of man" and who would subsequently suffer "a withering blight" for their sinfulness.

Cannon, apparently pricked in his conscience, then arose and confessed to the congregation that he was guilty of adultery and "resigned his priesthood". Cannon then moved that he be excommunicated.

The Tribune on Christmas Eve reported that Taylor was under investigation by a grand jury in southern Utah "for an unmentionable crime", which had "elicited some disgusting things of Taylor" apparently his homoerotic experiences as a youth prior to his conversion yet were unable to find "evidence of the crimes he was accused of" and thus had dropped the case against him. Cannon were so angry that I had got the property into my hands again that they encouraged the authorities to excommunicate me from the church upon a trumped-up slander, no charge was preferred, no [secular] trial had The publication was made by Taylor and Cannon on purpose to damage and ostracise me and has damaged me how much it is impossible to find out.

Even lay Mormons accused members of their own families of sodomitical practices, ostensibly for political gain. In , Lorenzo Hunsaker went through two ecclesiastical trials in Honeyville, Utah for allegedly having sexual relations with two younger half- brothers. Evidently just after October general conference, Lorenzo Hunsaker told Clawson that recently "Peter and Weldon, his [half-]brothers had circulated a story in that Ward to the effect that [Lorenzo] had been guilty of sucking their penis [sic] The question, therefore, was what, under the circumstances had best be done.

My confidence in the purity of Lorenzo's life and faithfulness as a Latter-day Saint," Clawson confided, "was such that I felt it would be an insult to ask him if he were guilty. Lorenzo Hunsaker did as suggested, ignoring the accusations, and found himself quickly excommunicated by the bishop of the Honeyville Ward.

Lorenzo appealed the action to the stake presidency and high council. Eventually, other half-brothers as well as male neighbors added their own accusations of attempted or accomplished oral and anal sex and masturbation with Lorenzo. But as Clawson indicated in his journal, Lorenzo was a Mormon in good standing: Thus the question came down to Lorenzo's piety versus the impiety of some ten accusers.

But behind all this lay the issue of the family inheritance. Abraham Hunsaker, the polygamous patriarch of a family of almost fifty children, had recently died and made it clear that his son Lorenzo was to be the fiscal and spiritual head of the family, even though he was not even close to being the oldest of the sons.

After Abraham's death, there had been some petty bickering and power struggles, and the accusations of homosexuality against Lorenzo must be viewed in the context of that power struggle among Abraham Hunsaker's heirs. While Peter, Weldon, and others clearly used their accusations against Lorenzo to erode his familial power and social influence, it seems clear after carefully reading all the testimonies, that Lorenzo Hunsaker was indeed engaging in sexual relations with his half-brothers and perhaps a neighbor or two.

However, because of his good standing in the church, Lorenzo won readmission into the church and managed to have Peter and Weldon Hunsaker excommunicated for lying, through the persistent efforts of Rudger Clawson. The other accusers, when faced with similar church action against them, recanted. During this period the local ward structure fell apart as people picked sides in a bitter ward and stake battle. A petition was circulated by the women of the ward, protesting the church's action against Peter and Weldon, but when they presented the petition to Clawson, he curtly replied that the women "could do as they pleased, but if they wished to do right, they would invariably vote to sustain the propositions of the Priesthood".

Clawson eventually released all local ward leaders including Bishop Benjamin H. Tolman for disobedience and for "humiliating the Priesthood". Tolman Released because of disobedience in Lorenzo Hunsaker case.

One of the most fascinating aspects to the Hunsaker case is the comprehensive first-hand account left by Clawson of frontier homosexuality, and the terminology used to describe acts of seduction and sex. I am always a bit disconcerted at not only how off-handedly Clawson recorded the rather crass terminology, but also at the fact that this terminology was used so frequently and easily in such a conservative environment as church courts.

The word "penis" is used 21 times in Clawson's record, and ejaculation is referred to as "discharging" five times. While "masturbation" occurs once, the act was often described by Clawson: Fellatio is much more frequently mentioned; however eight times it is described as sucking a penis, three times a penis was "found" in Lorenzo's mouth, twice he had his mouth over or on a penis, twice he "got" a penis in his mouth, and once he held a penis with his mouth.

Lorenzo Hunsaker was also twice called a "cock sucker" during the ecclesiastical proceedings. Lorenzo's brothers and neighbors also four times described non-specific sex acts apparently either masturbation or fellatio but not anal sex as being "monkeyed" with.

Once anal sex is referred to when Cyrus Hunsaker testified that Peter Hunsaker had told him that Lorenzo had tried to "ride" Peter when the two had traveled to Mendon, Utah together. Cyrus also testified that Peter had called Lorenzo "the horniest cuss he had ever slept with".

We also get one small hint as to how Lorenzo justified his actions in seducing these young men. Once Weldon asked Lorenzo "what good it did him, and he answered that it might keep [Weldon] from bothering the girls. Here Lorenzo used the excuse of having homosexuality maintain heterosexual chastity!

In turn, Weldon Hunsaker felt that homosexual acts with his half-brother would only increase his heterosexual desires. Both views are certainly at odds with current Mormon beliefs. For Thomas Taylor, secular judicial proceedings and media attention were minimal, while for Lorenzo Hunsaker, no such exposure occurred at all, indicating that the church maintained carefully controlled responses in both situations.

In the case Taylor, judicial proceedings were brought against him in the form of a grand jury investigation - but that took place several months after his excommunication. The grand jury convened in southern Utah, where it predictably received a minimum of press coverage.

Although Taylor's ecclesiastical investigation found enough "evidence" to excommunicate him, the grand jury concluded that "there was no evidence of the crimes he was accused of" and dropped the case. The fear of yet another scandal to feed anti-Mormon appetites perhaps helped keep Lorenzo Hunsaker out of both the secular courtroom and the media, as Hunsaker was a good Mormon polygamist like Thomas Taylor.

Even acknowledgment of homosexual desire among church members was unthinkable. Little profit then would have come from publicizing these cases in open court with the media filing sensationalized reports on an already battered church. As Mormon missionaries left Western civilization to preach to the "exotic other" in non-European countries, they were confronted with cultures, ethnoi , and mores that differed markedly from their own. They often turned to myths and legends to explain these differences.

In one such case, Elder Nathaniel Vary Jones was called on a mission to Calcutta, India in , remaining there until , when he returned to Utah. In a lengthy letter to Jedediah M. Grant of the First Presidency, Elder Jones explained that there in India, "the women are very singular in their costume," and went on to describe the sari , which was a scandalous and overly sensual mode of dress to the Victorian missionary. Jones noted however that, according to the tradition he heard, the sari was introduced to save India from nearly universal male homosexuality!

Synopsis: The girl has always dreamed of becoming a lawyer and as such has previously been a quiet but excellent student. After her father is off to a remote & dangerous part of the country, the virgin girl gets raped, and soon finds out that the more abuse & humiliation that is heaped upon her, the hotter & hornier she gets, and soon becomes a big pain slut taking on all comers allowing her. ADOPTIONS "The clan was the most important social entity to which a person belonged. Membership in a clan was more important than membership in anything else. An alien had no rights, no legal security, unless he was adopted into a clan. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us.